Nobuhide Imamura – “I never fired anybody from the group. Because I love them all” (October 2018)
For the first time, the group’s producer, Nobuhide Imamura, tells us how Zenbu Kimi no Sei da came to be, what drives them to push forward as hard as they can, and what caused members of previous lineups to leave.
“If we do everything by ourselves, no one will have any complaints against us.”
– This is the first time you’ve given an interview, so I’d like to start by asking you how it all began. Tell us how the idea of creating codomomental was born.
It all started when I was working in a company, or rather a corporate group, and I was doing quite well, but somehow I got bored. It was the fact that I had my own band before and I started to feel that this was not what I wanted to do with my life. And most importantly, I had Shounen ga Milc with me.
– She was still syam back then.
Yes. And I said: “Why don’t we try to do something together?” as if in jest, and we both liked Otona Keikaku (The Adult Project, a Japanese theater company and agency), like, why don’t we call it codomomental? It was so ordinary. And yes, by that time the music industry as I knew it had changed a lot.
– In a bad way?
In a bad way. So to speak, when I had my own band, we could dream in a good way. But it felt painfully different then. Whether it was TV or radio, it was felt everywhere in the media, and that was a big shock to me. Of course it takes money to promote an artist. So I didn’t mind investing money, but it was like it wasn’t the music that moved people’s hearts, it was something else. And after realizing all that, I wanted to try to do everything by myself, because if we do everything by ourselves, no one will have any complaints against us. That was the reason I started codomomental.
– I see. Is that why codomomental doesn’t only consist of artists?
Yes, it is.
– So you were motivated by the same motive that caused the rise of indie music in the 80s?
The same. It pissed me off so much. syam had such good music, but everyone was just like, “What about the figures?” Well, I can understand that. But then how can a completely unknown artist present himself to the world, can’t he do anything? I didn’t like that so much. I wanted to change that.
– But why did you start managing idols?
We had a camerawoman working for us at the time who really loved idols and one day she suddenly said to me: “Director, I want to do idols.” I told her: “If I’m going to do it, I’m going to do it thoroughly. Will you try your best until the group succeeds, or will you stop when no one else follows you?” But she said she still wanted to try her best, and I said, “Well, let’s give it a try.” And I started to organize the audition.
– So it all started with the impulse of a girl who was working for you at that time. Wasn’t Kisaragi Megumi-san already in codomomental at that time?
We made music videos together. With Milc and the others.
– At that time, Megumi-san wanted to be an actress, so you started making a short movie and Gomochi-san came to audition for it, didn’t she?
Yes. Except that Gomochi was in the movie, but there was no talk of her becoming an idol at that time. She had absolutely nothing to do with it. So the audition was for everyone. They all auditioned. Both Megumi and Gomochi.
– So they weren’t the backbone of the group?
No, they weren’t.
– Then why did you form the group with those members?
I don’t know… I never made any logical calculations or anything like that when selecting people at the auditions.
– In other words, there wasn’t a specific reason?
There was no reason. It was like that with everyone.
– Except that Mashiro-san said that it wasn’t that she wanted to become an idol-she was an avid shut-in and just wanted to find a reason to get out of the house. So it turns out that you took someone who had no motivation to join the group?
Yes, that’s true. But I guess isn’t everyone like that at first? We ourselves started making music for stupid reasons. Like wanting to be popular. So I would say that in the beginning the motive isn’t that important. I still think that.
– So it was more about intuition?
Exactly. And it was the same with Aza.
– And with Yumezaki Asuna-san?
And with Asuna. Except that it’s not in any official sources, but there was actually another member of the group before that. Even before we announced the lineup, her parents contacted us and told us that they were against her joining the group.
– Originally you wanted to start with six members?
Yes, we wanted to start with six members, but we ended up starting with five.
– I see. Was the concept of “yami kawaii” there from the beginning?
From the very beginning. We thought that the weakness in Japanese pop music nowadays is only expressed in visual kei. For example, in my time there was Cocco. And, if you count indie, a few other bands. In other words, it seemed like everyone was listening to something fun, and I didn’t like that. So we didn’t call it “yami kawaii” at first, but we decided that we wanted to express something like that one way or another. And then we started thinking about how to better express human weakness through the prism of pop music. For example, if you expressed it in words typical of the idols, it would be something like “sickness” and “cute.” That was the concept. It was decided from the beginning.
“Just let all your feelings flow. That’s what I wanted them to do in the first place.”
– Five months later the group had their first concert. I think the fact that the group debuted with a solo concert was quite unusual at that time.
I agree. “Zenkimi” debuted with a solo concert and sold out all the tickets, but since then there’s been a lot more like that.
– Yes, that’s true. But you didn’t sell out all the tickets because there was someone famous. How did you manage that?
Well, because we tried so hard to do it. For example, we went to different places and gave out free samples of our music. And flyers too. We tried really hard in that regard. We did everything that I did with my band when we were indies, when we went around handing out flyers the same way.
– So it wasn’t easy for you at all.
Of course it wasn’t. Because nobody knew us. And it was not the time when idol groups came out one after the other like today. We worked really hard on the songs, took them and the visuals that we had prepared and went to town with them. And it’s the same every time. And that’s also what we used to do with the band. We did it with everybody else.
– What did you think of the group’s first concert?
I can’t afford to enjoy the rough edges of unfinished work. After all, I want to show what we have worked so hard on. That’s why we rehearsed so hard. We rehearsed dozens of times for this solo concert and I told them all kinds of things. Like, “Don’t move away!”
– “Don’t move away from the front!” Megumi-san said that after the first concert you were really angry with them. You said that they should not show the results of their rehearsals, but that they should break forward and not be afraid of failing.
Yes, that’s what I said. That anyone could just take a result of rehearsals and demonstrate it, and that no one would free up their plans and pay money for the sake of it. Still, my favorite artists are the ones who give themselves completely to the concert, to the point of exhaustion. So much so that when the concert is over, they can’t get up in the dressing room. I’ve lived under the impression of such people, and it has to be something that makes my heart tremble. But, after all, they’re girls and they’re idols, so it’s no wonder they thought they needed to dance beautifully, they needed to sing beautifully. But don’t give me that! By our standards, that first concert was like the first day of second grade in middle school. “Wow, this is fun!” – That’s the level they were at. And it wouldn’t even occur to me to tell such people that they need to be very skillful at singing and dancing. But the only thing they can do, no matter how many people are in the audience, is to just let all their feelings flow. That’s what I wanted them to do in the first place.
– I mean, you didn’t think, “This is their first concert, I should praise them first.”
Oh, I started praising them very recently. But for the first year and a half I didn’t praise them at all. Of course, they were trying hard enough to be worthy of praise, but like I said, by our standards, they were like second-years in middle school, then they started to become something like third-years, then something like first-years in high school – that was the first year when the foundation was laid for how they would handle their concerts. So I was very strict.
– But after the first concert, Asuna-san decided to leave the group. How did you feel about that?
“I see” (laughs). That’s my long-held belief, but still, no one “graduates” from a group. They just “leave.” And the reason for leaving depends on the person. I believe that if someone ever truly thinks from the bottom of their heart that they want to leave—not “maybe I should leave,” but “I want to leave”—then I have no reason to stop them. After all, their heart is no longer here. Of course, I would have been happy if they were still with us, but I’ve never stopped anyone, and I thought there was probably nothing I could do about it.
– And when Yotsu-san joined the group, did you also initially want to expand the group to six members?
Yes.
– So it turned out to be the same as the debut of the group – you ended up with five members again (laughs).
Yeah. So I thought, as long as I’m in charge, I don’t think we’ll get six members. I guess it’s impossible (laughs).
“I never fired anybody from the group. Because I love them all.”
– Speaking of me, the song “MudaiGasshou,” which the group released in 2016, was the first work from the group that caught my attention. But it’s interesting: it’s an idol song, but there were no members in the music video at all. Was it a risky venture for you at the time?
Yes, it was. But I didn’t think anything of it. Well, I mean, I just always thought that concerts were the main place of artists. Since “MudaiGasshou” came out, they’ve been singing for the last year and a half, and I’m sure they’re really showing that convincing power live. There’s no doubt about it. So when you talk about the role of music videos, it’s kind of like that for me.
– But for sure you started to feel some success around that time?
No. I never felt any particular success. To put it bluntly. People often say to me, “Wow, this is great,” and ask me how profitable it is to do this kind of business. I get asked that a lot. But if you think about it, if I was the person who was taking care of all this, this company would be gone a long time ago, that’s for sure (laughs). You could say it’s nothing but losses.
– So if you were focused on profit, you couldn’t do all this (laughs).
Yes (laughs). We ourselves are well aware that it’s not that “Zenkimi” has achieved anything significant yet, not at all. For example, I’ve never been interested in what the standard sales figures for CDs are in the industry, so I don’t know what will happen when we’re on the same level as other people. First of all, I don’t think music is the kind of thing where you have to compete with anyone, and to avoid comparing ourselves to others, I never accept offers that suggest that.
– I see. Usually when a group is at its peak, they try to do more shows with other artists, participate in different festivals, be more public and try to spread their influence as much as possible. But that’s not what “Zenkimi” are doing, is it?
Yeah, people who want to be in the music business probably do. But I’m not like that, I love Zenbu Kimi no Sei da, so I want them to continue as long as possible. I want them to perform at the Budokan and if possible at a stadium, but most of all I want people who can sing such songs and do such performances to stay on stage as long as possible. That’s why I’ve never been in a hurry.
– Even if you move forward as fast as you can, you won’t jump over the steps?
I won’t, I intend to move up step by step. So if we don’t manage to sell out some places on the tour, we’ll try to go there again, and if we sell out, we’ll try to go to a place with a little bit more capacity. And it’s the same with releases. I think all of our releases get their final form during the tour, so when we put new songs on the setlists and go on tour with them, I consider them complete. When we do in-store performances, there’s just a ton of places that it seems like we’re never going to get into. But then why would we perform there, you ask? Ultimately, because I want it to be about concerts. It doesn’t matter if the group is profitable now or not. The most important thing is that even if we only get thirty people in a place, as soon as “Zenkimi” start singing, the front row starts crying. At moments like that, you think, “We didn’t come here for nothing.” And that kind of gradual accumulation of our own achievements is what we’ve always strived to do.
– So it’s not just then that you can see it?
Yes. But lately I often think that too many people intend to perform with other groups and go to festivals. So you play a festival, so what? Honestly. The main place of the artist is the solo concerts. And that goes for everyone. I think you should not turn solo concerts into some kind of memorial. The first, the second… How long will it take? I want Zenbu Kimi no Sei da to last as long as possible, so if you ask me how many solo concerts I want to do before the group ends its existence, it won’t be enough to do two or three hundred – a countless number. And there are times when we don’t have an audience at all. But that’s okay, we just have to go back there sometime.
– But it turns out it’s harder for you. Because the only way for you to get a new audience is through solo concerts.
But to be honest, I’ve never thought about attracting new audiences.
– Really (laughs)?
I’ve never thought about how to attract more people.
– But you want the group to grow, don’t you?
Of course I do!
– And you want the group to perform at the Budokan?
Of course I do! But it’s a question of the chicken or the egg, and we also like to talk in beautiful words. We’ve never had any meetings about what we need to do to attract new audiences. First of all it’s about making a good album, making a good concert, making a good tour, and even if we had a small audience in one place, the people in the front rows were crying. That’s what we really care about.
“The most important thing is to keep accumulating successes in what you’re striving for.”
– Excellent. So it was very unexpected to see Gomochi-san and Aza-san leave. I’ll ask you straight out: was it because they went to a barbecue with fans?
Yes. But it’s not like I fired them for going to a barbecue with fans. That’s also one of our unbreakable rules, but I’ve never fired anybody from the group. I mean, we don’t have that many people, and I’m always very selective in auditions. And I just love them all. Did Aza and Gomochi go to a barbecue with anyone? I said I would apologize with them. But it was important for me to know what they wanted to do after that. And Aza immediately said that she wanted to leave because she didn’t feel that being an idol was right for her.
– Shortly before that you held an audition. Did that have anything to do with the case?
No. I wanted to add a sixth member to the group even then!
– Ah, still again (laughs).
Yes (laughs). And that’s when I decided to give it up for good. I thought it was definitely impossible (laughs).
– So when you try to add a sixth member to the group, something happens. It’s like a curse (laughs).
Yeah, a curse (laughs).
– When it happened, the three remaining members got together with Megumi at the head. That was their own initiative, wasn’t it?
Yeah.
– And then all three of them immediately said that they would continue.
Yes. I was ready for any decision. Always.
– And if they had decided not to continue?
Then I would have dissolved the group. I would never dissolve a group on my own, but if they all said they were quitting Zenbu Kimi no Sei da, I would dissolve the group.
– And if only one person decided to continue?
Then I would continue. After all, I love them all, and if that’s what they want, then no matter what happens, but I will continue.
– I see. So Togare-san and Mikuchiyo Mene-san joined the group. Did you choose them for no apparent reason?
Yes, by intuition. But here’s a funny thing. It happens that I’m always very busy. That’s why I rarely get to do interviews, and even fewer people get together on those days. But that day both Togare and Mene came. But I only decided on Togare. After that I started to think about different things and decided to include Mene, but I doubted her until the last moment. Mene’s fans would probably get mad at me for that.
– So, in the case of Mene-san, you postponed your decision once.
Not once, but four times.
– Then why did you decide to take her?
There was a moment when I asked her to come again and I put her next to the other members. And they looked so great together. I still think so.
– But it didn’t last long. She started missing concerts and left the group on the first day of the Minnagoto tour.
All the time it felt like she didn’t fit in. After all, it’s more important for us to keep pushing ourselves hard, and she probably wasn’t suited for that kind of dirty work. It’s like she had her head in the clouds. But now that there are four of them, they’re like an indie band.
– So they’re not afraid of the dirty work (laughs).
They’re like: “Let’s do it, together!” But Mene seemed a bit aloof from all this.
– Did she decide that on her own, too?
Of course she did.
– It’s amazing how Togare-san has grown after all this. In that sense, when something bad happens to “Zenkimi,” they always finds the strength to withstand the blow.
But I don’t think it’s anything bad. After all, quits, they happen. They always have. Sometimes they happen. No, of course I try to keep them from leaving, I do it all the time, and maybe more than anyone else, but still, if someone wants to leave, their heart isn’t here anymore, so I don’t stop them.
– But I think it’s pretty sad.
Of course I’m still sad and it’s hard to bear mentally, but there’s no reason to stop the others. We have good songs and great members. Is there a reason to stop someone? But come to think of it, I’ve never been the first one to say that we should go on at times like this.
– Just as the members came together after Aza-san and Gomochi-san left, they also came together naturally after the recent O-EAST concert. From what Yotsu-san said, after the O-EAST concert, she felt that she had done all she could and relaxed for a moment. And then they spontaneously came together and decided to talk, and it turned out that they were all thinking the same thing. They agreed again that they couldn’t stop here.
Oh, I didn’t know about that (laughs).
– So you didn’t know?
Well, I can understand all those sentimental feelings, but the fact that they can recover their spirits after such hardship says a lot about their strength, I’m surprised myself.
– You said that you didn’t praise them for a long time. But approximately when did you start praising them?
About the time the Shinsei Wagazuku Tour (“新生我尽ツアー”, maybe the transcription is wrong) started. And on the Minnagoto tour, I had already started to praise them properly. After all, Mene left the group on September 30th, the first day of the tour, and from October 1st they tried to do their best as a four, but 31 concerts in 25 cities was really hard even for them. A lot of things happen on tour. Somebody can get sick and of course there isn’t always a good mood. And I was very happy to see that even in those situations they’re able to work hard. So I want them to continue to do their best on a whim, if I may say so… (laughs).
– So they do their best on a whim and you praise them for it (laughs).
Yes, of course, otherwise we wouldn’t be able to support them. A person who doesn’t want to work hard doesn’t need support. I don’t really believe in “multiplication.” That if you team up with someone, you’ll become popular, or if you perform somewhere, you’ll become famous – that doesn’t happen. No, maybe it does, but it’s obviously only temporary support, and it’s more important to keep accumulating successes in what you’re striving for. So we can only support those who can confidently “accumulate.” But without their personal efforts, it is impossible to generate this “accumulation.”
– So you don’t have “multiplications.” But you have “pluses.”
Yes, we have “pluses.” And of course there are also “minuses.” Well, for example, we released a good album and now what, we have to appear on TV? No, it’s not like that at all. Although the idols usually try to do that. When we released our new album “NEORDER NATION” we never did anything like that. But we performed in twenty stores, we let people see us for free. And this is all promotion based on “pluses,” on “accumulation.”
– When the group did a tour of free solo concerts in 11 cities around the country this summer, it was obviously a particularly aggressive example of this policy.
Yes. Release an album, play the title track on TV, and repeat this every time until both the audience and the artists themselves consider it ordinary. It’s incredibly boring. So we just try to show everybody as much of our concerts as we can – what we’re really good at. So that people don’t just admire us because they’ve seen us on TV, but they come and see us with their own eyes and they like it or they don’t like it. I mean, that happens. There are people who understand that it’s not for them and then there are people who want to see us again after the concert. We aim for exactly this kind of promotion; this is what we’ve always tried to do.
– I see. So how do you think the story of “Zenkimi” will develop further?
It’s not a story but a development, but first of all I would like to see them singing, dancing, raging on big stages. After all, the group has been around for several years and it is necessary to climb higher. By the time this book is released, the concert at Zepp TOKYO will have been announced, and so I want the group to go higher and higher, while at the same time going to different places. I want to go higher and come to all of our fans at the same time. And do it again and again.
– But you still won’t take the easy way out?
Yes. So, while performing on big stages, we will also perform in clubs. In the best tradition of rock bands.
– Megumi-san said she wants to perform for seven days at the Budokan (laughs). Apparently, while also touring all the clubs in the country at the same time.
Yes. But at the same time it means that the members of “Zenkimi” have to grow to be able to do that, and be ready for both.